Video: Interview with Dutch engineer who built the Brega bunker

Dutch engineer Freek Landmeter built the bunker in Brega that was hit by NATO forces. The coordinates he gave Sky News match closely those given by the Libyan authorities as being a guest house that was hit by the strike.

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12 Responses to Video: Interview with Dutch engineer who built the Brega bunker

  1. patriot says:

    Stop justifying killing of civilians.
    Civilians were killed, just because you want to hit something that is under the Hotel it doesn’t mean you can flatten the Hotel having people inside.

    This is a crime against humanity. Where is that chap called Ocampo? I think he has zero (O) in his head.

  2. Sofia says:

    I really hope that all this fighting in Libya will stop so that we can give peace a chance for Libyans to solve their problems themselves. I don’t know why NATO is throwing bombs all over the place and not giving all parties a chance for peaceful talks. I don’t know whether or not the Transitional National Council in Benghazi have the support of the WHOLE Libyan people but they must stop asking the west to get involved in Libya’s problems. Yes, Gaddafi should go but it is for Libyan people to remove him, not the west or NATO. NATO has killed a lot of innocent people.

    • Harald says:

      Sofia, pehaps your intentions are good but i doubt that your suggestions would work in the real world.

      “I don’t know why NATO is throwing bombs all over the place and not giving all parties a chance for peaceful talks”

      Quite easy, Nato and allied nations like Sweden and Quatar are attacking military forces attacking civilians and military installations important for Ghaddaffis forces to sustain the military operations against civilians.
      Authorized by two UN resolutions.
      The lybian gouverment has declared several ceasefires, but immediately broke them by continuing to attack several cities and villages.
      Peaceful talks are only possible when the lybian army directed by Ghaddaffi ceases the hostilities and withdraws from every contested city and village.

      “I don’t know whether or not the Transitional National Council in Benghazi have the support of the WHOLE Libyan people but they must stop asking the west to get involved in Libya’s problems”

      Obviously the TNC hasen’t the support of the whole lybian people.
      There are some Ghaddaffi loyalists and many persons who are essentially neutral, they only want peace and security.
      But that is the wrong question.
      The right question would be:
      Does the TNC represents the hope and the wishes of the majority of lybians and is therefore the legitimate representation of Lybia?
      Many lybians fighting very hard in the different regions of Lybia against Ghaddaffis oppression answer with yes.
      With regard that the TNC should stop asking the West for support, they asked Russia, China, the african states and the arab states for support and besides the Arab Emirates and Quatar nobody responded.
      So to avoid being slaughtered by the merciless forces of Ghaddaffi they had no choice to ask Canada, USA and the european states for help.

      “Yes, Gaddafi should go but it is for Libyan people to remove him, not the west or NATO”

      Please explain to me how that might work.
      Having a small amount of military experience and having studied the situation in Lybia, i don’t see how Ghaddaffi can be removed from power by the courageous but lightly armed and undertrained forces of the TNC.
      They need outside help to hold their ground and finally end this conflict by removing Ghaddaffi and his pawns from power.

      As we have seen the time period before 17th February Ghaddaffi reacted with brute force against every call for reform and a constitutional state.
      He did not talk with dissenters, he ordered his security forces to kill them.
      Several tens of thousands of dissenters have been murdered since Ghaddaffi came to power in Lybia (Some even by paid thugs in places like Germany)
      So if you want to die in Lybia, dissent openly with Ghaddaffi in regions controlled by his security forces.

      That said, there can’t be and won’t be any peace if Ghaddaffi or his sons remain in power.
      Either they leave the country, are captured or killed.
      Besides it would be easy to restore peace fast of the well being of Lybia and the lybian people had some importance for Ghaddaffi and his sons.
      If they would leave Lybia fast they would spare Lybia the ongoing horrors of military conflict.

  3. Harald says:

    Patriot, again you are blaming the wrong side for the tragedy.
    “Stop justifying killing of civilians.”
    That’s right, this is exactly what Ghaddaffi and his troops do.

    “Civilians were killed, just because you want to hit something that is under the Hotel it doesn’t mean you can flatten the Hotel having people inside.”

    Yes, this is a grave crime against humanity and the Geneva Convention by Ghaddaffi and his forces.
    Using civilians as human shields to protect a military installation like this communication bunker.
    It is sad that many people, and pehaps some civilians died because they were used as human shields by an merciless regime.
    The attack on this military used bunker was entirely as an attack on a military target, so it is clear that Ghaddaffis forces breached the law and caused the loss of life.
    I hope this regretable incident will have at least one positive result.
    That civilians stay away from military installations and army units.
    The civil war and the air attacks by UN on military targets in Lybia have taken place more than two month now.
    More than enough time to leave the vicinity of military targets.

    • patriot says:

      Harald,

      You are still trying to justify hitting of the Hotel with bunker under it. London has several underground tunnels that have residential houses on top.

      Are you trying to tell me that hitting these houses to destroy the underground tunnels is justifiable?

      Just because one Engineer said the coordinates matched with something he had built 23 years ago we can’t justify this. What if this bunker is now a civilian shelter?

      The main point is you can’t kill civilians to get to get to the person you want. If I take your point and consider it to be valid and I give you a scenario. You have a thug holding a civilian infront of himself and you have a gun. Are you telling me its ok to shoot the civilian in order to kill the thug?

      The problem of the West is double standards. You can never have true democracy based on double standards.

      By the way did you read news on what Israel did today to demonstrators near Golan heights? Who is saying anything?

      • Harald says:

        “You have a thug holding a civilian infront of himself and you have a gun. Are you telling me its ok to shoot the civilian in order to kill the thug?”

        In a constitutional state it is illegal to shoot the civilian to kill the thug. Drawn further, in a modern constitutional state the state doesn’t kills anybody if it can be avoided without loss of innocent life (it would be legal to kill the thug if there is no other possibillity to save the life of the hostage as an emergency measure, but not to kill the thug because he is a armed thug) and has no death penalty.
        But that is not the question here.
        You compare two different matters here where different laws apply:
        The civil law inside a state and the laws of war, who apply in armed conflicts between states.
        Here we have the laws of war, we have Ghaddaffis gouverment claiming to be the legitimate gouverment of Lybia and a coalition of nation states (France, Quatar, Italy etc.) who are engaged in actions of war against the current gouverment of Lybia on behalf of two UN resolutions to stop the actual lybian gouverment attacking and killing their own citizens.
        In the realm of warfare attacks against military targets are allowed (That is sadly the nature of war, two sides trying to enforce their will with military force under the cost of human life)
        Since the air campaign of the international alliance has lasted nearly two month, there was enough time for civilians to leave the vicinity of military targets like this command and control bunker (Two confirmations that this was a military used bunker: First the dutch engineer who was directly engagend in the constructed and secondly the intercepted military communication from this bunker).
        Since Nato and the allied nations openly declared that their goal is not to kill civilians and acted this way, staying away from military installations and army units is nearly a guarantee for civilians not to become an unintentional victim of an Nato airstrike in Lybia (True, sadly Nato and especially the USA have a much less convincing history avoiding civilian casualities in Iraq and Afghanistan).
        So it is entirely the fault of Ghaddaffis gouverment who try to cover military installations with human shields (clearly regarded as warcrime)

        “You are still trying to justify hitting of the Hotel with bunker under it. London has several underground tunnels that have residential houses on top.
        Are you trying to tell me that hitting these houses to destroy the underground tunnels is justifiable?”

        As they are used now the London underground tunnels aren’t military targets, they are used for civilian transportation, hence a civilian target.
        If, however in a war situation they would be used for military purposes like as a military headquarter and for military command and control, they would loose their protection as civilian installation.
        Also if London would be besieged by an enemy army and the british army would use the tunnels as military staging area and transportation measure for soldiers and military equipment, it would be legal for the besieging army and airforce to attack the tunnels, after the civilian population had enough time to leave the contested area.
        In the case of the Bunker in Brega (and the guesthouses above) both needed facts to justify an attack where there:
        1st an military taget (the command and control bunker).
        2nd enough time (nearly two month) for the civilian population to leave the vicinity.

        “The problem of the West is double standards. You can never have true democracy based on double standards.”

        What you call “the West” doesn’t exist as a monolithic bloc. There are different states, nations, ethnical groups, different religions etc.
        Recently a great rift evolved between the USA and the EU.
        It’s like the socalled “arab nations”.
        Also a great diversity of states, nations, ethnical groups, different religions etc.
        What you say about double standard is to some extent true.
        But in my opinion it would be terrible wrong for “the west” or “western nations” like the USA or GB not to act in Lybia because they did so much wrong in places like India, the Phillipines, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan (and in Iraq and Afghanistan continue to do so, i hope they leave Iraq and Afghanistan soon).
        Each case has to be jugded separately.

        “By the way did you read news on what Israel did today to demonstrators near Golan heights? Who is saying anything?”

        Yes i did. And it falls into the sad use of unjustified force by the recent israeli gouverments.
        In my opinion the time has come for a UN resolution against the israeli gouverment, but everytime it is introduced into the Security Council the USA veto it (Not the european states, hence not the whole “west”).
        I have stated my opinion to come to a realistic, but for both sides bearable solution for this conflict earlier:

        Harald Beginner
        Posts: 35

        Post Re: A change of Plan?
        on: March 20, 2011, 22:08

        It should entirely be in the hands of the new legitimate lybian gouverment elected in fair elections to take a position regarding Israel/ Palestina.
        I can only offer my assesment:
        Lybia after the succesfull revolution will be largely preoccupied with rebuilding the destroyed buildings, restarting the economy and the creation of a democratic society based on the rule of law.
        So the position of Lybia will pehaps not have so much clout in that respect in the near future.

        But if you ask me personally, it would be an error to rely on Israel and support Israels claim on the entire territory of Palestina.
        The palestinians have good reasons to feel disenfranchised, too.
        There will be no entirely just solution to that conflict.
        A lasting peace requires to accept a two state solution by Israel and the palestinians.
        Personally a good solution would be that Israel would keep all territory they possesed before the six days war 1967 , and the rest including East Jerusalem would form the new palestinian state (The permant settlements in the palestinian state must be transferred to palestinian authority).
        Both states should recognize the territorial integrity of the other state and the minority rights of palestinian and israeli nationals in Palestina and Israel.
        And both states should guarantee taking coordinated action against jewish and palestinian extremists attacking either side.
        Both states should then should get a security guarantee by several nations, including the USA, Russia, several arab nations, several EU member states and pehaps some more.

        Sorry for the very long post.

      • Citation says:

        If it was war time I would hope that the British government would tell those residents to move to another location before using those bunkers for military purposes.

  4. Fredy says:

    Harald I agree with your perspective , is objective and real.

    Even if not a 100 % of Libyans agree with the TNC the majority do and they are putting their life’s on the line to free Libya from Gaddafi. The one’s who are unsure about the TNC leadership will be heard later on , that’s what a democracy is all about.

    It’s about integration. Not about one man.

  5. son of ghazi says:

    the Libyans cannot fix the problem by themselves when Gaddafi has them outnumbered by using mercenaries to do his dirty work.

    • patriot says:

      Its not mercenaries, its the true sons and daughters of Libya in the Libyan army who are being bombeb by your Masters.

      You are laughing now but you will cry once you start paying these Imperialists with your freedom and oil…

  6. Fredy says:

    Ghazi , don’t expect so much from foreigners. You guys are doing well.

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