Misrata update and comments for June 7th and 8th

These are the events in Misrata of June 7th and 8th, thanks to FunGuerillaz.

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30 Responses to Misrata update and comments for June 7th and 8th

  1. James Miller says:

    Some responses to this and various information and postings I have made and collected the last two days.

    TANK LOSSES?

    I am skeptical of the reported tank losses it sounds very much like rumours and fanciful rumours – I think the NATO report is the accurate one. I might be wrong but I’d go with that for now.

    Also I am pretty sure the NLA beat off the Gadaffi attack or most of it by themselves. There were many live reports to Tribute FM for two days of attacks NATO was very often nowhere to be seen or overhead doing their “flirting” thing. The NLA are more than ready to take Zliten.

    Contact with NATO from Misrata is every 4 hours not 30 min (as some other misinformation). It must go through Benghazi and return from Benghazi – all sightings must be verified by multiple sources and authorization of kills must be vetted by long process often vetoed – - so I can’t see NATO jets scrambling so fast or reacting too fast to any quick attack – maybe – but I’d like to get verification.


    Zliten “Rising up”

    Previously said However in examining the “chatter” or rhetoric from several different sources from rebel commanders verbatim on caught on actual video by investigative MSM reporters “we are waiting for Zliten to rise up” I take it that that is an across the board order/request and it has been transmitted verbatim. It looks like NATO told them something like “No, you can’t make Zliten into another Misrata/Stalingrad , but if it looks like the situation there is already becoming Misrata you can rush in and help.”

    Now I add this , today June 09, .In response to a report of intense activity inside Zliten and another report of Zliten FF escape to Dafinyah lines given weapons and returned to inside Zliten:

    - The best thing for Misrata NLA to do is smuggle their own guys and weapons into there to help whatever Zliten FF remain and help them get active again – this is exactly what may be happening now, if they can get the Zliten insurgency going by relieving the pressure from inside then NATO will give Misrata the Green light to rescue Zliten something of which they have been fully capable now for four weeks or more. This is a good way to try to gen up or get around the NATO policy,.
    Allowing the NLA to attack , I’m sure it would all be over in a week or 10 days. but the current strategy will take maybe 2 to 4 months and possibly can fail.

    On the recent hits by NATO around Misrata

    This is new, finally some activity after a long dearth, but it needs evaluation – simply a list doesn’t tell the Tactical Sitrep. though attrition certainly doesn’t hurt – I celebrate that.The helicopters came back from a long holiday …… but .. only two targets! and a “MR launcher” is really just one truck, I mean really! – it was probably incidental . Each Apache Heli is armed with primary weapons being 16 hellfire missiles – two to four of them could unleash an absolute inferno on any front line if unrestricted – they could decimate the front line in 45 minutes and the NLA could punch to Tripoli in 12-24 hours but they are not being used for that purpose – they are just hunting down the Telecom behind the lines and acting on intelligence from long term Ops. So it’s more intelligence operations not combat ops.
    Evaluation
    I would say for these actions, that NATO decided the Misrata NLA was taking too much punishment just sitting there and did a little attrition, but not enough to alter the balance of power overwhelmingly in the NLA favor though certainly the NLA is now far superior to G-forces there as G-forces are unable to punch through (they tried several times and NLA successfully defended without NATO ‘s help) even though G-forces have the protection of NATO in a way because NATO forbids NLA to attack so G-forces can launch attacks and then retire to protected zone.

    Before the attacks on G’s B-day, reported to Tribute FM was a Big “encouragement “party banquet before the planned attack. One of the sons was reported to be the speech maker – also sighted near the Farms the next day but the name i missed but Tribute response was “so he’s not dead?”


    Helicopters (FunGuerrilaz note: this is second usage of helicopters around Misrata first was French mirage used to attack a few command and control centers inside the Zliten lines – it’s on video -occurred same time as first heli attack on Brega. For Brega there was one more attack to take out radar and stuff – only 2 things that were a threat to choppers – absolutely no ground destruction – satisfied with that they seemed to have stopped operations against Brega — so it’s obvious – no planned attack there just waiting for regime to crumble and have minimal casualties)

    The helicopter action 2nd in Misrata was used for the big picture not for the Misrata ground picture. The big picture is the Tripoli thing – that is the only real military action ongoing against Gadaffi geared towards victory (it is done to encourage the surrender of G’s sub commander)- this is the NATO doctrine..

    I am not sure of any other Heli attacks, there might have been some more somewhere , for every real one there are three rumours, I think the pilots are mostly getting a Med Holiday, must be disappointing for those guys.

    About Attrition and the meaning of NATO data on strikes

    Data is not information. It is unevaluated information. The list of things could be almost meaningless in a tactical sense. For instance in Nafusa , they hit a unused warehouse storing faulty equipment – the FF commander was infuriated because they refused to hit the real troop equipment – he had used google maps – sent co-ordinates to Benghazi to give to NATO – saw NATO all day and instead of hitting the G-forces who were firing the missiles and had the tanks they hit some unused warehouse.
    Has anyone seen the pics of various G-forces bases throughout Nafusa? They are like Roman military camps, by themselves , outside of cities, very powerful , siting ducks for NATO bombers, but as yet untouched by them.

    A note: attrition that is too slow is not attrition, things can be slipped over the border, or out form bunkers , mechanics working 24/7 etc. .To evaluate attrition properly one has to know the rate of resupply, the supplies in storage and rebuilding. (a rocket launcher a day might sound good until you find out how many her are hidden away, and this special situ where he can rebuild the army with mercs, ruthless mercs at that. The problem is G’s endless $.

    Any strategy that takes time works in G’s favour and the fact is that because the sub-commanders do know NATO’s doctrine , it encourages them to fight on a the same time they are being discouraged – this doctrine seems to hang on a delicate balance.

    About Tripoli Bombing Strategy

    Lord Stirrup
    Watch here: Lord Stirrup at about 2:35
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5g5a1ZlOXM
    for some further insight it the NATO doctrine with the Tripoli bombing campaign.

    Very important because this is the only strategy NATO has for victory. It considers all the fronts as closed. It’s not what NATO hits in Tripoli, it who the things belong to – they want those guys who are in command positions of those things to defect – they have given up on Gadaffi.Now for sure Gaddafi knows this and he takes countermeasures IE he sees what is hit , checks out the loyalties of those who are in charge of those things.
    It’s like a chess game

    .This is actually the only strategy they have, they try to discourage all fighting form either side while they do this… in a general sort of way to the best possible they can to that effect. Though the problem is the 1,000′s of murders and suppressions committed in Gaddafi controlled territory while the slow
    strategy or doctrine unfolds.
    The uprisings have little chance of being relived while this doctrine unfolds, it may take some months to be successful.It would seems best for insurgents to not show their hands unless they know they can stay alive by themselves, unsupported from outside because it may take a while.

    NATO- ORGANIZATION

    Something – I heard casual comment on Tribute FM,
    1. A different country is in charge each week of the operations – I don’t know the details of this,which countries? all
    countries ? etc.
    2. Some, but not all information was shared and this included information on various command and control transfer operations
    - Yeah I can see that , that always happens even in a country like USA with joint Ops and policing.
    . I just hope Turkey’s never given a “week”, they’d probably go bomb Paris.

    NEWS on NATO
    Gates prodded Spain, Turkey and the Netherlands, which are playing other roles in the mission, to take part in the bombing raids, officials said.
    Gates also urged two other countries that have sat out the operation so far — Germany and Poland — to play at least some role.

    Nafusa

    Nafusa –
    NATO just doesn’t help the NLA and that in itself keeps them away from Tripoli – there is a monster brigade 100 -200 tanks , G’s elite brigade. professional tank crews with high ground and the approach is a “death corridor” – NLA can not get get past them without NATO’s help, which doesn’t seem to be forthcoming – so that front is stalemated naturally without NATO having to order the NLA to stand down there as it did elsewhere.
    The source also said NATO as usualy is doing nothing out those brigades and other brigade problems – I guess NATO doesn’t want a loss of life even on the G side as far as troops go,but of course never cares about the repression that exists because of those guys. (Info source on Nafusa is live satellite transmission direct to Tribute FM)

    I think the elite brigade is between them and Zawaiyah have to check it. (Edit – Yes)

    More confirmation on lack of NATO assistance

    And also yet another video /interview from Nafusa (Sueet ? (SP) 12 KM from Yefren – 100 KM from Tripoli)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpqE9MqVqLI&feature=player_embedded

    Intro by FF (Kaled Ahmed) Another FF (Mohammed ) is saying yet again , they got there without NATO’s help and “why they just in Tripoli why they never use their power on this area , where is NATO, why they never come?) Well – we know the answer.

    Ajdabiya
    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/b0scfe

    On Friday 10th June 2011, @LibyaAlHurraTV said:
    Wednesday 08 June 17:07
    Eastern region: #Ajdabiya (Al-Tadmun): Libya’s Martyr’s Battalion captures 3 #Gaddafi SUVs after a 5 hour chase in the night. It is noteworthy that the arrest happened without the release of a single bullet. It was suspected that these vehicles were the ones that shelled the city with the weapons they carry. Among those captured was an expert in #AlZwetina area
    Another reason why it is so important to take ground and take Brega. It’s leaving them a base to launch terrorist operations.

    Some postings I made about Gaddafi as tactician:

    On the other hand he could be just sneering at the half job done by NATO conscientious effort as he pulls more out of bunkers and slips mercs and other shipments across the border.
    What I’m saying is think like the enemy would think and you will know better what you are up against. Daffy is no simple emotional person he has 42 years plus fierce military experience and plays military tactics like a MASTER Chess player , he has an advantage he is totally ruthless he doesn’t care if he lose 90 percent of his population and all the sand in Libya so long as he wins the game.
    In this one he is playing like a master. And many things that others here regard as successes he regards as trivial, because he knows as all totalitarians know, that so long as he survives, he gets to define what reality is and rewrite history. It is unwise to underestimate him or his entourage..
    For instance , defections won’t discourage him. He will just regard it as getting rid of the garbage from his staff and he will get new people that are better for him. And the NATO doctrine here is not too good because it gives him time to train those people who will be more ruthless and murderous that the ones who defected –
    Again we have it that a long term strategy to defeat Gaddafi is a very bad idea – letting the NLA attack is guaranteed but NATO cannot allow that option, it’s too bad and very depressing.

    These don’t feel like good times
    My current feeling is it’s very depressing, slow rate very depressing and do they really think that they can get the main guys to defect from G that way? If that fails , it all fails and NLA is left out in the cold having stood down for nothing. And all G’s areas are being supplied and fortified, NATO states roads are open to Brega and being used Two months form now they might be very hard to take if suddenly NLA had to do it without NATO’s help.

    Radio Benghazi - for the last few days the announcers themselves seemed depressed and demoralized b/c taking so long and seems up and down. – probably reelecting Benghazi city mood.

    Oh fudge! Reports are twittering G-forces are back at it again with cluster bombs and Grads – right now many NLA casualties.

    Hey NATO! This has gotta stop, Let them go in there and wipe out those G-forces – or do what you said you were going to do and use your planes and helicopters to take out his artillery on the front lines! Stop playing pussy foot and only bombing Tripoli!

  2. James Miller says:

    Part 1

    Some responses to this and various information and postings I have made and collected the last two days.

    TANK LOSSES?

    I am skeptical of the reported tank losses it sounds very much like rumours and fanciful rumours – I think the NATO report is the accurate one. I might be wrong but I’d go with that for now.

    Also I am pretty sure the NLA beat off the Gadaffi attack or most of it by themselves. There were many live reports to Tribute FM for two days of attacks NATO was very often nowhere to be seen or overhead doing their “flirting” thing. The NLA are more than ready to take Zliten.

    Contact with NATO from Misrata is every 4 hours not 30 min (as some other misinformation). It must go through Benghazi and return from Benghazi – all sightings must be verified by multiple sources and authorization of kills must be vetted by long process often vetoed – - so I can’t see NATO jets scrambling so fast or reacting too fast to any quick attack – maybe – but I’d like to get verification.


    Zliten “Rising up”

    Previously said However in examining the “chatter” or rhetoric from several different sources from rebel commanders verbatim on caught on actual video by investigative MSM reporters “we are waiting for Zliten to rise up” I take it that that is an across the board order/request and it has been transmitted verbatim. It looks like NATO told them something like “No, you can’t make Zliten into another Misrata/Stalingrad , but if it looks like the situation there is already becoming Misrata you can rush in and help.”

    Now I add this , today June 09, .In response to a report of intense activity inside Zliten and another report of Zliten FF escape to Dafinyah lines given weapons and returned to inside Zliten:

    - The best thing for Misrata NLA to do is smuggle their own guys and weapons into there to help whatever Zliten FF remain and help them get active again – this is exactly what may be happening now, if they can get the Zliten insurgency going by relieving the pressure from inside then NATO will give Misrata the Green light to rescue Zliten something of which they have been fully capable now for four weeks or more. This is a good way to try to gen up or get around the NATO policy,.
    Allowing the NLA to attack , I’m sure it would all be over in a week or 10 days. but the current strategy will take maybe 2 to 4 months and possibly can fail.

    On the recent hits by NATO around Misrata

    This is new, finally some activity after a long dearth, but it needs evaluation – simply a list doesn’t tell the Tactical Sitrep. though attrition certainly doesn’t hurt – I celebrate that.The helicopters came back from a long holiday …… but .. only two targets! and a “MR launcher” is really just one truck, I mean really! – it was probably incidental . Each Apache Heli is armed with primary weapons being 16 hellfire missiles – two to four of them could unleash an absolute inferno on any front line if unrestricted – they could decimate the front line in 45 minutes and the NLA could punch to Tripoli in 12-24 hours but they are not being used for that purpose – they are just hunting down the Telecom behind the lines and acting on intelligence from long term Ops. So it’s more intelligence operations not combat ops.
    Evaluation
    I would say for these actions, that NATO decided the Misrata NLA was taking too much punishment just sitting there and did a little attrition, but not enough to alter the balance of power overwhelmingly in the NLA favor though certainly the NLA is now far superior to G-forces there as G-forces are unable to punch through (they tried several times and NLA successfully defended without NATO ‘s help) even though G-forces have the protection of NATO in a way because NATO forbids NLA to attack so G-forces can launch attacks and then retire to protected zone.

    Before the attacks on G’s B-day, reported to Tribute FM was a Big “encouragement “party banquet before the planned attack. One of the sons was reported to be the speech maker – also sighted near the Farms the next day but the name i missed but Tribute response was “so he’s not dead?”


    Helicopters (FunGuerrilaz note: this is second usage of helicopters around Misrata first was French mirage used to attack a few command and control centers inside the Zliten lines – it’s on video -occurred same time as first heli attack on Brega. For Brega there was one more attack to take out radar and stuff – only 2 things that were a threat to choppers – absolutely no ground destruction – satisfied with that they seemed to have stopped operations against Brega — so it’s obvious – no planned attack there just waiting for regime to crumble and have minimal casualties)

    The helicopter action 2nd in Misrata was used for the big picture not for the Misrata ground picture. The big picture is the Tripoli thing – that is the only real military action ongoing against Gadaffi geared towards victory (it is done to encourage the surrender of G’s sub commander)- this is the NATO doctrine..

    I am not sure of any other Heli attacks, there might have been some more somewhere , for every real one there are three rumours, I think the pilots are mostly getting a Med Holiday, must be disappointing for those guys.

    About Attrition and the meaning of NATO data on strikes

    Data is not information. It is unevaluated information. The list of things could be almost meaningless in a tactical sense. For instance in Nafusa , they hit a unused warehouse storing faulty equipment – the FF commander was infuriated because they refused to hit the real troop equipment – he had used google maps – sent co-ordinates to Benghazi to give to NATO – saw NATO all day and instead of hitting the G-forces who were firing the missiles and had the tanks they hit some unused warehouse.
    Has anyone seen the pics of various G-forces bases throughout Nafusa? They are like Roman military camps, by themselves , outside of cities, very powerful , siting ducks for NATO bombers, but as yet untouched by them.

    A note: attrition that is too slow is not attrition, things can be slipped over the border, or out form bunkers , mechanics working 24/7 etc. .To evaluate attrition properly one has to know the rate of resupply, the supplies in storage and rebuilding. (a rocket launcher a day might sound good until you find out how many her are hidden away, and this special situ where he can rebuild the army with mercs, ruthless mercs at that. The problem is G’s endless $.

    Any strategy that takes time works in G’s favour and the fact is that because the sub-commanders do know NATO’s doctrine , it encourages them to fight on a the same time they are being discouraged – this doctrine seems to hang on a delicate balance.

  3. James Miller says:

    Part 2

    About Tripoli Bombing Strategy

    Lord Stirrup
    Watch here: Lord Stirrup at about 2:35
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5g5a1ZlOXM
    for some further insight it the NATO doctrine with the Tripoli bombing campaign.

    Very important because this is the only strategy NATO has for victory. It considers all the fronts as closed. It’s not what NATO hits in Tripoli, it who the things belong to – they want those guys who are in command positions of those things to defect – they have given up on Gadaffi.Now for sure Gaddafi knows this and he takes countermeasures IE he sees what is hit , checks out the loyalties of those who are in charge of those things.
    It’s like a chess game

    .This is actually the only strategy they have, they try to discourage all fighting form either side while they do this… in a general sort of way to the best possible they can to that effect. Though the problem is the 1,000′s of murders and suppressions committed in Gaddafi controlled territory while the slow
    strategy or doctrine unfolds.
    The uprisings have little chance of being relived while this doctrine unfolds, it may take some months to be successful.It would seems best for insurgents to not show their hands unless they know they can stay alive by themselves, unsupported from outside because it may take a while.

    NATO- ORGANIZATION

    Something – I heard casual comment on Tribute FM,
    1. A different country is in charge each week of the operations – I don’t know the details of this,which countries? all
    countries ? etc.
    2. Some, but not all information was shared and this included information on various command and control transfer operations
    - Yeah I can see that , that always happens even in a country like USA with joint Ops and policing.
    . I just hope Turkey’s never given a “week”, they’d probably go bomb Paris.

    NEWS on NATO
    Gates prodded Spain, Turkey and the Netherlands, which are playing other roles in the mission, to take part in the bombing raids, officials said.
    Gates also urged two other countries that have sat out the operation so far — Germany and Poland — to play at least some role.

    Nafusa

    Nafusa –
    NATO just doesn’t help the NLA and that in itself keeps them away from Tripoli – there is a monster brigade 100 -200 tanks , G’s elite brigade. professional tank crews with high ground and the approach is a “death corridor” – NLA can not get get past them without NATO’s help, which doesn’t seem to be forthcoming – so that front is stalemated naturally without NATO having to order the NLA to stand down there as it did elsewhere.
    The source also said NATO as usualy is doing nothing out those brigades and other brigade problems – I guess NATO doesn’t want a loss of life even on the G side as far as troops go,but of course never cares about the repression that exists because of those guys. (Info source on Nafusa is live satellite transmission direct to Tribute FM)

    I think the elite brigade is between them and Zawaiyah have to check it. (Edit – Yes)

    More confirmation on lack of NATO assistance

    And also yet another video /interview from Nafusa (Sueet ? (SP) 12 KM from Yefren – 100 KM from Tripoli)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpqE9MqVqLI&feature=player_embedded

    Intro by FF (Kaled Ahmed) Another FF (Mohammed ) is saying yet again , they got there without NATO’s help and “why they just in Tripoli why they never use their power on this area , where is NATO, why they never come?) Well – we know the answer.

    Ajdabiya
    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/b0scfe

    On Friday 10th June 2011, @LibyaAlHurraTV said:
    Wednesday 08 June 17:07
    Eastern region: #Ajdabiya (Al-Tadmun): Libya’s Martyr’s Battalion captures 3 #Gaddafi SUVs after a 5 hour chase in the night. It is noteworthy that the arrest happened without the release of a single bullet. It was suspected that these vehicles were the ones that shelled the city with the weapons they carry. Among those captured was an expert in #AlZwetina area
    Another reason why it is so important to take ground and take Brega. It’s leaving them a base to launch terrorist operations.

    Some postings I made about Gaddafi as tactician:

    On the other hand he could be just sneering at the half job done by NATO conscientious effort as he pulls more out of bunkers and slips mercs and other shipments across the border.
    What I’m saying is think like the enemy would think and you will know better what you are up against. Daffy is no simple emotional person he has 42 years plus fierce military experience and plays military tactics like a MASTER Chess player , he has an advantage he is totally ruthless he doesn’t care if he lose 90 percent of his population and all the sand in Libya so long as he wins the game.
    In this one he is playing like a master. And many things that others here regard as successes he regards as trivial, because he knows as all totalitarians know, that so long as he survives, he gets to define what reality is and rewrite history. It is unwise to underestimate him or his entourage..
    For instance , defections won’t discourage him. He will just regard it as getting rid of the garbage from his staff and he will get new people that are better for him. And the NATO doctrine here is not too good because it gives him time to train those people who will be more ruthless and murderous that the ones who defected –
    Again we have it that a long term strategy to defeat Gaddafi is a very bad idea – letting the NLA attack is guaranteed but NATO cannot allow that option, it’s too bad and very depressing.

    These don’t feel like good times
    My current feeling is it’s very depressing, slow rate very depressing and do they really think that they can get the main guys to defect from G that way? If that fails , it all fails and NLA is left out in the cold having stood down for nothing. And all G’s areas are being supplied and fortified, NATO states roads are open to Brega and being used Two months form now they might be very hard to take if suddenly NLA had to do it without NATO’s help.

    Radio Benghazi - for the last few days the announcers themselves seemed depressed and demoralized b/c taking so long and seems up and down. – probably reelecting Benghazi city mood.

    Oh fudge! Reports are twittering G-forces are back at it again with cluster bombs and Grads – right now many NLA casualties.

    Hey NATO! This has gotta stop, Let them go in there and wipe out those G-forces – or do what you said you were going to do and use your planes and helicopters to take out his artillery on the front lines! Stop playing pussy foot and only bombing Tripoli!

  4. James Miller says:

    Part 2

    About Tripoli Bombing Strategy

    Lord Stirrup
    Watch here: Lord Stirrup at about 2:35
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5g5a1ZlOXM
    for some further insight it the NATO doctrine with the Tripoli bombing campaign.

    Very important because this is the only strategy NATO has for victory. It considers all the fronts as closed. It’s not what NATO hits in Tripoli, it who the things belong to – they want those guys who are in command positions of those things to defect – they have given up on Gadaffi.Now for sure Gaddafi knows this and he takes countermeasures IE he sees what is hit , checks out the loyalties of those who are in charge of those things.
    It’s like a chess game

    .This is actually the only strategy they have, they try to discourage all fighting form either side while they do this… in a general sort of way to the best possible they can to that effect. Though the problem is the 1,000′s of murders and suppressions committed in Gaddafi controlled territory while the slow
    strategy or doctrine unfolds.
    The uprisings have little chance of being relived while this doctrine unfolds, it may take some months to be successful.It would seems best for insurgents to not show their hands unless they know they can stay alive by themselves, unsupported from outside because it may take a while.

    NATO- ORGANIZATION

    Something – I heard casual comment on Tribute FM,
    1. A different country is in charge each week of the operations – I don’t know the details of this,which countries? all
    countries ? etc.
    2. Some, but not all information was shared and this included information on various command and control transfer operations
    - Yeah I can see that , that always happens even in a country like USA with joint Ops and policing.
    . I just hope Turkey’s never given a “week”, they’d probably go bomb Paris.

    NEWS on NATO
    Gates prodded Spain, Turkey and the Netherlands, which are playing other roles in the mission, to take part in the bombing raids, officials said.
    Gates also urged two other countries that have sat out the operation so far — Germany and Poland — to play at least some role.

    Nafusa

    Nafusa –
    NATO just doesn’t help the NLA and that in itself keeps them away from Tripoli – there is a monster brigade 100 -200 tanks , G’s elite brigade. professional tank crews with high ground and the approach is a “death corridor” – NLA can not get get past them without NATO’s help, which doesn’t seem to be forthcoming – so that front is stalemated naturally without NATO having to order the NLA to stand down there as it did elsewhere.
    The source also said NATO as usualy is doing nothing out those brigades and other brigade problems – I guess NATO doesn’t want a loss of life even on the G side as far as troops go,but of course never cares about the repression that exists because of those guys. (Info source on Nafusa is live satellite transmission direct to Tribute FM)

    I think the elite brigade is between them and Zawaiyah have to check it. (Edit – Yes)

    More confirmation on lack of NATO assistance

    And also yet another video /interview from Nafusa (Sueet ? (SP) 12 KM from Yefren – 100 KM from Tripoli)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpqE9MqVqLI&feature=player_embedded

    Intro by FF (Kaled Ahmed) Another FF (Mohammed ) is saying yet again , they got there without NATO’s help and “why they just in Tripoli why they never use their power on this area , where is NATO, why they never come?) Well – we know the answer.

  5. James Miller says:

    I tried to beak up the parts into smaller parts – I still can’t get it past the “moderation” and I don’t know how many days it will be stuck. I’ll try some more:
    Part 2

    About Tripoli Bombing Strategy

    Lord Stirrup
    Watch here: Lord Stirrup at about 2:35
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5g5a1ZlOXM
    for some further insight it the NATO doctrine with the Tripoli bombing campaign.

    Very important because this is the only strategy NATO has for victory. It considers all the fronts as closed. It’s not what NATO hits in Tripoli, it who the things belong to – they want those guys who are in command positions of those things to defect – they have given up on Gadaffi.Now for sure Gaddafi knows this and he takes countermeasures IE he sees what is hit , checks out the loyalties of those who are in charge of those things.
    It’s like a chess game

    .This is actually the only strategy they have, they try to discourage all fighting form either side while they do this… in a general sort of way to the best possible they can to that effect. Though the problem is the 1,000′s of murders and suppressions committed in Gaddafi controlled territory while the slow
    strategy or doctrine unfolds.
    The uprisings have little chance of being relived while this doctrine unfolds, it may take some months to be successful.It would seems best for insurgents to not show their hands unless they know they can stay alive by themselves, unsupported from outside because it may take a while.

  6. James Miller says:

    Part 3
    Nafusa

    Nafusa –
    NATO just doesn’t help the NLA and that in itself keeps them away from Tripoli – there is a monster brigade 100 -200 tanks , G’s elite brigade. professional tank crews with high ground and the approach is a “death corridor” – NLA can not get get past them without NATO’s help, which doesn’t seem to be forthcoming – so that front is stalemated naturally without NATO having to order the NLA to stand down there as it did elsewhere.
    The source also said NATO as usualy is doing nothing out those brigades and other brigade problems – I guess NATO doesn’t want a loss of life even on the G side as far as troops go,but of course never cares about the repression that exists because of those guys. (Info source on Nafusa is live satellite transmission direct to Tribute FM)

    I think the elite brigade is between them and Zawaiyah have to check it. (Edit – Yes)

    More confirmation on lack of NATO assistance

    And also yet another video /interview from Nafusa (Sueet ? (SP) 12 KM from Yefren – 100 KM from Tripoli)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpqE9MqVqLI&feature=player_embedded

    Intro by FF (Kaled Ahmed) Another FF (Mohammed ) is saying yet again , they got there without NATO’s help and “why they just in Tripoli why they never use their power on this area , where is NATO, why they never come?) Well – we know the answer.

  7. James Miller says:

    Part 4
    NATO- ORGANIZATION

    Something – I heard casual comment on Tribute FM,
    1. A different country is in charge each week of the operations – I don’t know the details of this,which countries? all
    countries ? etc.
    2. Some, but not all information was shared and this included information on various command and control transfer operations
    - Yeah I can see that , that always happens even in a country like USA with joint Ops and policing.
    . I just hope Turkey’s never given a “week”, they’d probably go bomb Paris.

    NEWS on NATO
    Gates prodded Spain, Turkey and the Netherlands, which are playing other roles in the mission, to take part in the bombing raids, officials said.
    Gates also urged two other countries that have sat out the operation so far — Germany and Poland — to play at least some role.

  8. James Miller says:

    Part 5 (Finished – comments “in moderation can be deleted)
    Ajdabiya
    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/b0scfe

    On Friday 10th June 2011, @LibyaAlHurraTV said:
    Wednesday 08 June 17:07
    Eastern region: #Ajdabiya (Al-Tadmun): Libya’s Martyr’s Battalion captures 3 #Gaddafi SUVs after a 5 hour chase in the night. It is noteworthy that the arrest happened without the release of a single bullet. It was suspected that these vehicles were the ones that shelled the city with the weapons they carry. Among those captured was an expert in #AlZwetina area
    Another reason why it is so important to take ground and take Brega. It’s leaving them a base to launch terrorist operations.

    Some postings I made about Gaddafi as tactician:

    On the other hand he could be just sneering at the half job done by NATO conscientious effort as he pulls more out of bunkers and slips mercs and other shipments across the border.
    What I’m saying is think like the enemy would think and you will know better what you are up against. Daffy is no simple emotional person he has 42 years plus fierce military experience and plays military tactics like a MASTER Chess player , he has an advantage he is totally ruthless he doesn’t care if he lose 90 percent of his population and all the sand in Libya so long as he wins the game.
    In this one he is playing like a master. And many things that others here regard as successes he regards as trivial, because he knows as all totalitarians know, that so long as he survives, he gets to define what reality is and rewrite history. It is unwise to underestimate him or his entourage..
    For instance , defections won’t discourage him. He will just regard it as getting rid of the garbage from his staff and he will get new people that are better for him. And the NATO doctrine here is not too good because it gives him time to train those people who will be more ruthless and murderous that the ones who defected –
    Again we have it that a long term strategy to defeat Gaddafi is a very bad idea – letting the NLA attack is guaranteed but NATO cannot allow that option, it’s too bad and very depressing.

    These don’t feel like good times
    My current feeling is it’s very depressing, slow rate very depressing and do they really think that they can get the main guys to defect from G that way? If that fails , it all fails and NLA is left out in the cold having stood down for nothing. And all G’s areas are being supplied and fortified, NATO states roads are open to Brega and being used Two months form now they might be very hard to take if suddenly NLA had to do it without NATO’s help.

    Radio Benghazi - for the last few days the announcers themselves seemed depressed and demoralized b/c taking so long and seems up and down. – probably reelecting Benghazi city mood.

    Oh fudge! Reports are twittering G-forces are back at it again with cluster bombs and Grads – right now many NLA casualties.

    Hey NATO! This has gotta stop, Let them go in there and wipe out those G-forces – or do what you said you were going to do and use your planes and helicopters to take out his artillery on the front lines! Stop playing pussy foot and only bombing Tripoli!

    • WEB says:

      Many of the things you allege here to be facts are false or unreasonably bad assumptions.

      Your conclusion sentence contains considerable flaws as well. NATO has basically admitted it’s trying to assassinate Gaddafi. If they succeed, that could end the war on the spot, so it’s foolish for you to just dismiss it as “pussy-footing.” Secondly, you take no account of how G force artillery and armor is camoflouged. I recall one rebel describing those units so well concealed that they are like movie trees. So again, it’s not a shooting gallery as you falsely portray. Lastly, you seem to fail to take into account the paucity of equipment and supply among the rebels, and thus they would not just go in there and “wipe out those G-forces.” They could be decimated and not get anyone wiped out but themselves.

  9. James Miller says:

    Hi FunGuerrilaz , yeah just realized if those reports of multiple destroyed vehicles were at all true then, by logic it was the NLA that destroyed them, and NATO is telling the truth. In the past week there were reports they have fought off several G-Forces attacks that used tanks and artillery without the help of NATO – source live to Radio Benghazi.

    • WEB says:

      I’m not FunGuerrillaz.

      The tone for your comment: “yeah just realized if those reports of multiple destroyed vehicles were at all true then, by logic it was the NLA that destroyed them, and NATO is telling the truth” is foolish. NATO is not the evil organization you pretend it is. I don’t think you’ve though through NATO’s strategy, nor have you though through the international and domestic politics behind the strategy (just as you have not thought out the military and tactical situation in Libya).

  10. Fredy says:

    Good work James !

    Get work web.

  11. Fredy says:

    Good work James !

    Get to work web.

    • WEB says:

      What an overwhelming intellectual rebuttal to what I said:

      “NATO has basically admitted it’s trying to assassinate Gaddafi. If they succeed, that could end the war on the spot, so it’s foolish for you to just dismiss it as “pussy-footing.” Secondly, you take no account of how G force artillery and armor is camoflouged. I recall one rebel describing those units so well concealed that they are like movie trees. So again, it’s not a shooting gallery as you falsely portray. Lastly, you seem to fail to take into account the paucity of equipment and supply among the rebels, and thus they would not just go in there and “wipe out those G-forces.” They could be decimated and not get anyone wiped out but themselves.”

  12. James Miller says:

    Thanks Fredy,
    We are on the same page.

    The message to FunGuerrilaz was indeed addressed to FunGuerrilaz.
    —>
    New Information just out:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/10/misrata-rebels-say-nato-not-helping?
    —>
    Here’s a protest tweet:

    @NATO @NTC_of_Libya http://tinyurl.com/64osce6 “We aren’t their private airforce & get behind red line!” NATO set them up to die #Misrata

  13. James Miller says:

    Thanks Fredy,
    We are on the same page.

    The message to FunGuerrilaz was indeed addressed to FunGuerrilaz.

    New Information just out:

    hxxp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/10/misrata-rebels-say-nato-not-helping?
    Here’s a protest tweet:

    @NATO @NTC_of_Libya hxxp://tinyurl.com/64osce6 “We aren’t their private airforce & get behind red line!” NATO set them up to die #Misrata

    (Replace xx with tt)

    • JoeBlow says:

      It is an insult to the human race that a baffoon like you is still around to walk and breathe. Your obvious lack of mental facilities is equalled only by your total disregard for other human lives.

      • WEB says:

        Well, I wouldn’t worry about it. The rebels aren’t listening to anyone here, not the admin, not me, not you, and not James. James can go on with his ignorance of actual battlefield conditions and post long comments which no one reads. It’s not a big deal. He’s harmless.

  14. Fredy says:

    JoeBLOw tell web to suck your thing.

    Sorry James :

    Nato can be very arrogant and demeaning . The way Nato responds is with total disregard to the human loss of life they have to persistently remind everyone is their mission. 40 NLA fighters killed today in Misrata.

    Nato are you are fighting alone ?

    Nato time your self . Your timing has been questionable. You were doing all right until the fucking Apache Mosquitos came in. Your plan is ambiguous. Whomever said that Nato is not the private airforce and to get behind the red line. We don’t take that bullshit talk here in the USA. Fuck you Nato very dearly.

    Nato you’ve got the tools but you lack the heart sssshhhhhholes.

    • WEB says:

      Good ole’ opportunistic, Fredy, taking the opportunistic shot at me. Too bad you don’t have the intelligence to actually contribute something to the discussion.

      “Keep pushing”, that’s what your mom tells me anyway. ;)

  15. Fredy says:

    Nato started to fuck up again.

    When they fuck up they are always right.

  16. Fredy says:

    A CNN and an Al-Jazeera reporters were asking Nato’s whereabouts .

    Mosquitos suck.. Go home Nato. Turn the mission over to the U.S. At least when they fuck up they admit it. Not you Nato.

    Don’t expect applauses Nato. You are working for yourself. You are trying to justify foreign ground intervention. This is how you save lives Nato ?

    40 dead in Misrata.

    • WEB says:

      “Mosquitos suck.. Go home Nato. Turn the mission over to the U.S. At least when they fuck up they admit it. Not you Nato.

      Don’t expect applauses Nato. You are working for yourself. You are trying to justify foreign ground intervention. This is how you save lives Nato ?”

      What a stupid thing to say. Obama deliberately turned the mission over to NATO, so for you to say that NATO should turn the mission back over to the US is dumb. If Obama thought it was a better idea for the US to do the job he would have never turned the mission over in the first place.

      Secondly, your saying that NATO is going to do a “foreign ground intervention” is just totally stupid. What puzzles me is why you say such stupid things. Is it you trying to mold yourself into your ignorant stereotype of what a Libyan is? Or maybe you’re just too dumb to understand complicated things like society and war. I think that could be it.

  17. Fredy says:

    Nato, you never established red lines in Misrata and you were not behind them when G forces overwhelmed the NLA.

    Your’e fucked up Nato. Your’e out of bombs.

    • JoeBlow says:

      Do you believe everything the media tells you dumbass? I takes about the same amount of time to make those bombs as it does for you to lift up your skirt so James can lick your snatch.

  18. Fredy says:

    Hi webos and joe blow cock.

    Why don’t you two do something good for all of us, like bringing us some good reports ?

    Get to work assholes.

  19. Fredy says:

    Hi webos and joe blow cock.

    You two could do something good for all of us, like bringing us some good reports ?

    Get to work assholes.

    • WEB says:

      You’re pathetic, Fredy. You have a gutter mouth and the mind of a two-year old. It’s too bad you can do nothing but cuss from behind a computer. You know that if you said it to my face I’d slap the shit out of your senile old ass.